There are lots of examples of how Zen Masters do not agree with the Western Philosophical logic of separating the message and the messenger.
The Moonlight penetrating the Waves of the Lake is a famous one that comes up around here... but arguably Nanquan Chopping the Cat up has the same problem, Juzhi's Finger has the same problem, Zhaozhou's Good Thing has the same problem...
Zen Masters argue that, when it comes to direct experience, the truth-of-the-experience and the speaker-of-truth are co-dependent variables. This might seem shocking to most Westerners... but if we scratch at the surface it turns out to be really familiar.
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We don't trust a liar after they've lied lots of times
- r/Zen has seen lots of people leave the forum after reaching a critical mass of getting caught
- Convicted perjurers aren't considered reliable witnesses
- People convicted of certain crimes related to positions of trust (doctors, lawyers, accountants) lose their licenses to practice after conviction.
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Zen's What Do They Teach Where You Come From
- The implication there is that's what you know about, because that's what YOU have direct experience of.
- It's not about what you have concluded, it's about what you have seen.
- Given that this is your testimony, your credibility is part of your explanation.
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Religions make the same claims as science.
- Religious people claim to have had supernatural experiences
- Picking a religion means picking which person to believe
- The character of the person often play no role in believing their testimony.
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Yo͞ok Welcome! Meet me My comment: Just something to think about.
Submitted April 10, 2023 at 11:00AM by ewk https://ift.tt/qaNrUgP
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