https://www.reddit.com/r/zen/wiki/xutangemptyhall
31
舉。雲門甞舉。馬大師道。一切語言是提婆宗。以者箇為主。乃云。好語只是無人問我。時有僧便問。如何是提婆宗。門云。西天九十六種。爾是最下種。
代。禮拜了退。
mdbg: here
Hoffman
Master Unmon had once quoted Master Baso as saying, "Daiba [Aryadeva, the founder of the Daiba sect] treated all words with respect; this is an important thing." Then Unmon said, "This is a fine saying, only nobody has asked me anything." At that a monk asked, "What is the Daiba sect?" Unmon said, "There are ninety-six heretical schools in India, and you belong to the lowest one."
[Comment from] Master Kido:
To bow and withdraw.
What’s at stake?
Appellations:
(Japanese - Chinese - <Indian>)
Master Unmon - Master Yúnmén (雲門)
Master Baso - Master Mǎzŭ (馬祖)
Master Kido - Master Xūtáng (虛堂)
Daiba - Dīpó (提婆) <Āryadeva / Kanadeva>
Background:
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Āryadeva, also known as Kanadeva, the fifteenth Indian patriarch, was known for carrying about a red flag, and famous for using winning arguments and debates, those losing in debate would stand under it, shave their heads, and become students.
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Āryadeva was born in Ceylon in the third century, and may have been reportedly killed by enemies of Buddhism. Some of his supposed commentaries, such as the Treaties on the Hundred songs (Śataśāstra), refutes various philosophical ideas in comparison to Buddhism.
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Āryadeva was famous for the case where he placed a needle in a bowl of water handed to him by the fourteenth Indian patriarch.
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Baling Haojian, Yúnmén's student, said the Kanadeva school is "snow heaped in a silver bowl."
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The religious commentaries want to suggest for this case that "Using words to chase words is the dumbest of the dumb" (Dosho)
Translation Failures:
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Hoffman says "India" (西天) but the correct translation is "Western Heavens" (西天)
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西天 is "Sukhāvatī" aka the "Western Heavens: Western Pure Land of Amitābha"
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Yúnmén says the "Pure Lands" to as here and now, as opposed to true reality realms-- suggesting people took stories literally and worshiped them.
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Hoffman says "Western Heavens" is just "India".
Yikes.
Problem:
The religious commentaries want to leave you with an impression that this is a matter of "using words", as the problem. These religious commentaries suggest that "using words to chase words: you're the dumbest of the dumb."
Why don't we take into account layman Pang's interaction with a Ch'an student who straight up asked Pang where the snow falls.
Pang slapped him.
How about just using your own two eyes.
Offering:
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Tthe school of words, debate, and argumentation is the school of words, debate, and argumentation.
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It's a matter of: "well it's your school, friend, since you asked" and my addition is: I say it's Yúnmén's school too. gasps
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In this case, "The lowest" doesn't need to mean "the wrong".
In conclusion, contrary to teachings lately found in Neo-buddistic religion, the words aren't dumb. And it doesn't make you dumb to use words. If you think so, you might have faith in a cult.
r/Zen translation:
Submitted March 03, 2022 at 04:18AM by eschox https://ift.tt/0LCfqeJ
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