Zen vs Paper bag Buddhism

Paper bag meets wet countertop

There are people who use pali words and talk about "Zen Buddhism" is this or that, they come and go on this forum like paper bags of knowledge. They claim a practice they can't describe, tranquillity they clearly never experience, and promise to explain later and then never do... all on 5 m/o accounts and homemade webpages.

One of our current crop wrote all about the precepts and sounded very knowledgeable, attributing the precepts to a sutra which as it turns out was a collection of writings from around 400 CE... Sounded fine until we remember Buddha followed the precepts a thousand years before that according to every older record.

How did the paper bag miss that?

Nanquan's golden ball

Nanquan said to a Buddhist lecturer "What Sutra are you lecturing on?"

The Buddhist replied, "The Nehan Sutra."

Nanquan said, "Won't you explain it to me?"

The Buddhist said, "If I explain the sutra to you, you should explain Zen to me."

Nanquan said, "A golden ball is not the same as a silver one."

The Buddhist said, "I don't understand."

Nanquan said, "Tell me, can a cloud in the sky be nailed there, or bound there with a rope?"

...Sounds like Nanquan is just a smooth talker. People say that about Zen all time, "it's just smooth talker Buddhism". Except the sutra scholar admits he doesn't understand Zen's position. Except the sutra scholar is prepared to explain sutra teachings while Nanquan only explains why zen can't be explained the way the sutra scholar explains.

Not dumb, blind

These sutra scholars and paper bag Buddhists of today aren't dumb... They are blind. The distinction isn't a small one.

I say all this smooth taking stuff and paper bag Buddhists talk about how it's just smooth talk... But they can't get around it. They form clubs to figure out together how to get around me, but they can't.

Meanwhile the actual Buddhists, like that sutra expert of Nanquans, spell out their beliefs and we all see those beliefs aren't Zen Theravada and Mahayana did it,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_points_unifying_Therav%C4%81da_and_Mah%C4%81y%C4%81na

...but the paper bag Buddhists say no no no... Paper bag Buddhists can't even get around sutra experts

Not so smoove

That's the issue... pretending the Zen record is smooth talk is lying. Nanquan is actually smarter than everybody. It isn't smooth talk, it is smarter talk.

Zen masters aren't dazzling people with an interpretation, they are actually smarter than everybody about a different doctrine.

I'm not here ripping up paper bag Buddhists because I'm a smooth talker. I'm reading these directions from Zen Masters. I'm understanding their arguments. I'm being legit about the doctrinal structure of the teachings.

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µ ^Yo͞ok Welcome! ^{Meet me} My comment: Paper bag buddhists aren't smarter than Nanquan... when they say Nanquan is just a smooth talking Zen Buddhism they are pretending to be smarter than Nanquan. On the other hand, sutra experts admit they don't understand Zen.

Zen isn't Buddhism. Don't let people dazzle you. Quote the teachings.

Submitted March 01, 2023 at 03:37AM by ewk https://ift.tt/7abSwiq