Who's Enlightened? Can a Zen Master tell immediately every time?

So in a recent podcast recording Astro and I found we disagreed on whether or not Zen masters can be mistaken when judging if someone is enlightened or not and whether or not multiple tests of enlightenment can be required before knowing for sure. I believe that Zen masters can indeed require multiple tests to make sure. Given that Astro and I are both reasonable, scholarly, and handsome students of Zen we thought it would make for good posting material to discuss our opposing views on this subject. I've chosen a case that I think support my argument: Xiangyan's enlightenment story.

After Xiangyan was enlightened he composed a poem which eventually made its way back to his teacher Guishan. The rest of the case goes as follows:

When Guishan heard of this, he said, "This fellow is through."

Yangshan, who was standing by, said, "This is composed by mental machination, conceptual consciousness; wait till I have personally tested him." Subsequently Yangshan met Xiangyan and said, "The master has praised your discovery of the great matter. Try to explain." Xiangyan then recited the foregoing verse. Yangshan said, "This comes from memory of earlier learning. If you have truly become enlightened, let's see you give another explanation." Xiangyan composed another verse, saying,

Last year's poverty was still not actually poverty;

This year's poverty is poverty indeed.

In last year's poverty I still had ground to stick an awl;

This year I'm so poor I don't even have an awl.

Yangshan said, "I'll grant that you understand the Chan of Buddhas, but you still haven't even dreamed of the Chan of patriarchs." Xiangyan composed another verse:

I have a device;

It's seen in the blink of an eye.

If people don't understand,

Call a novice besides.

Yangshan then reported this to Guishan and said, "Happily Xiangyan understands patriarchs' Chan."

I think this case supports my argument that Zen masters can be mistaken about someone's status of enlightened or not enlightened for a few reasons.

Firat it appears that Guishan was convinced of Xiangyan's enlightenment just from hearing his poem and Yangshan was not. These are two Zen masters coming to different conclusions about the same guys possible enlightenment.

What's more even when Yangshan arrives to test him in person it takes two tests and two poems before he is convinced.

I would argue in this case that Yangshan was initially incorrect in doubting that Xiangyan was enlightened, and didn't come to the correct conclusion until he had tested him two more times.

Submitted March 16, 2023 at 07:36PM by koancomentator https://ift.tt/0l4QULe