Joshu Showdown?

I've been re-(re-re-)reading Joshu the past week or so and, instead of picking up my usual Green translation, I decided to take a look at Hoffman's Radical Zen; it's been an interesting opportunity to have a different perspective on the text - the translations differ in some minor ways with occasional major deviations. I've found a lot of Hoffman's linguistic choices to be more accessible without changing the underlying meaning, but there are some instances where the two translations are very different from one another. A few relevant examples of each follow:

Hoffman - Radical Zen

Joshu asked [his master] Nansen, "The Way - what is it?"

Nansen said, "It is everyday mind."

Joshu said, "One should then aim at this, shouldn't one?"

Nansen said, "The moment you aim at anything, you have already missed it."

Joshu said, "If I do not aim at it, how can I know the Way?"

Nansen said, "The Way has nothing to do with 'knowing' or 'not knowing.' Knowing is perceiving but blindly. Not knowing is just blankness. If you have already reached the un-aimed-at Way, it is like space: absolutely clear void. You can not force it one way or the other."

At that instant Joshu was awakened to the profound meaning. His mind was like the bright full moon.

Green - The Recorded Sayings of Zen Master Joshu

The master asked Nan-ch'uan (Nansen), "What is the Way?"

Nan-ch'uan said, "Ordinary mind is the Way."

The master said, "Then may I direct myself towards it or not?"

Nan-ch'uan said, "To seek [it] is to deviate [from it]."

The master said, "If I do not seek, how can I know about the Way?"

Nan-chu'an said, "The Way does not belong to knowing or not knowing. To know is to have a concept; to not know is to be ignorant. If you truly realize the Way of no doubt, it is just like the sky: wide open vast emptiness. How can you say 'yes' or 'no' to it?"

At these words the master had sudden enlightenment. His mind became like the clear moon.

Hoffman - Radical Zen

A monk asked, "How can I avoid being deluded by various things?"

Joshu put one foot forward. The monk pushed the master's shoes toward him. Joshu drew his foot back.

The monk was dumbfounded.

Green - The Recorded Sayings of Zen Master Joshu

A monk asked, "How can you not lead the multitudes of the world astray?"

The master stuck out his foot.

The monk took off one of the master's sandals.

The master brought back his foot.

The monk could say nothing more.

Hoffman - Radical Zen

A nun asked, "Master, will you teach me the truth that has never been spoken?"

Joshu rebuked her: "Hey! The kettle is scorched!"

The nun added water to the kettle and said, "Master, please answer."

Joshu laughed.

Green - The Recorded Sayings of Zen Master Joshu

A nun asked, "Setting aside the explanations given until now, please instruct me."

The master shouted, "Burn an iron bottle to ashes!"

The nun then went and poured the water out of an iron bottle and brought it to the master saying, "Please answer."

The master laughed at this.

I was wondering if anyone has insight into the value of Radical Zen as a translation in general, and was hoping to discuss the translation differences in the latter two cases that I posted in particular. Which translation is more accurate, and how do the meanings of those cases change with the differences in translation?

It also seems that Hoffman may have been working with a shorter manuscript, since the case numbering does not line up between the two and the Green translation has several cases that Hoffman does not.

Submitted August 16, 2022 at 09:06PM by DarkKindness https://ift.tt/QMZJRC6