Let's talk about precepts!

Yes, precepts, more precepts, again precepts. What, you don't like precepts?

Ch'ing Ming [A famous lay-disciple.] says: 'There are people with minds like those of apes who are very hard to teach; people who need all sorts of precepts and doctrines with which to force their hearts into submission.'

Oh no..

These people who are difficult to convert have minds like monkeys. Therefore one must resort to various methods in order to control and regulate their minds. Only then can they be tamed and made obedient. It is like dealing with an elephant or horse that is wild and unruly One must apply sharp blows, till it feels them in its bones, and then it can be tamed. And it is the same with these stubborn and strong-willed beings who are difficult to convert. Therefore one uses all sorts of bitter and piercing words, and then they can be made to observe the precepts.

Like monkeys! That's gotta sting.

A monk asked, "Mixing without becoming impure - what is that like?"

Joshu said, "I eat only vegetable food; I always adhere to the precepts."

The monk said, "Can one elevate oneself in this way?"

Joshu said, "You would trespass against the law."

Wait? Law? Tresspass? Man, things are getting complicated now.

.. he does always seem to adhere to the precepts. Anyone like to dispute that?

Question: Renunciants today, having received the precepts, are clean and pure in body and mouth; already invested with all the standards, do they attain liberation or not?

The master said, A little bit of liberation; but they have not yet attained liberation of mind and liberation in all places.

Wait, wait, wait, you're telling us that even with the precepts it's not enough? Pfffttt...

The Master's personal name was I-hsiuan and he was a native of Nan-hua in Ts'ao-chou. His surname was Hsing. As a child he displayed unusual qualities, and when he grew older he was known for his filial devotion. Later, when he shaved his head and received full ordination in the precepts, he took up residence in the lecture halls, assiduously studying the vinaya and reading widely and diligently in the sutras and treatises.

THIS GUY DIDN'T EVEN FULLY KEEP THE PRECEPTS! What's that about??

how will you distinguish initiate from naive? After a silence, Yuan Wu said, "If you have precepts, go by the precepts; if you have no precepts, go by the example."

^{What exmaple did zen masters set again?}

Submitted June 11, 2022 at 07:03PM by TheChemicalWhisperer https://ift.tt/FsKg3nt