Sunyata vs. Huang Bo

u/GuruHunter (shoutout) gave me this idea in another thread. Basically, in reply to a comment about emptiness, I mentioned that as part of my practice (for lack of a better word), I listen to and read the English translation of the Heart Sutra as a strong reminder.

He kindly suggested that I replace the words of the Heart Sutra with the words of Huang Bo. Then he kindly provided some quotes upon my request and I decided to make a thread of it.

For fairness' sake, a little background about me, after which I will quote some bits of the Heart Sutra as well.

I came to (a less religious version of) Buddhism from a naturalistic mindset, in fact I'm still a naturalist.

I think dependent origination, anatta (no-self) and anicca (impermanence) are not only logically and scientifically sound, but they clearly point to sunyata (emptiness). I could expound on this in depth but in order to save time I will only do so if asked, I assume most people here are familiar with these. I love to talk about them though so just let me know.

Now, for the relevant bits of the Heart Sutra, which I hold near and dear as the iron 🔨 that goes beyond Buddhism and tramples it into the ground as well as anything else, paving the way to sudden enlightenment.

Listen Sariputra, this Body itself is Emptiness and Emptiness itself is this Body. This Body is not other than Emptiness and Emptiness is not other than this Body. The same is true of Feelings, Perceptions, Mental Formations, and Consciousness.

Listen Sariputra, all phenomena bear the mark of Emptiness; their true nature is the nature of no Birth no Death, no Being no Non-being, no Defilement no Purity, no Increasing no Decreasing.

That is why in Emptiness, Body, Feelings, Perceptions, Mental Formations and Consciousness are not separate self entities.

The Eighteen Realms of Phenomena which are the six Sense Organs, the six Sense Objects, and the six Consciousnesses are also not separate self entities.

The Twelve Links of Interdependent Arising and their Extinction are also not separate self entities. Ill-being, the Causes of Ill-being, the End of Ill-being, the Path, insight and attainment, are also not separate self entities.

Whoever can see this no longer needs anything to attain.

Now I would like to examine Huang Bo's ideas with my current understanding of emptiness, not knowing much about Huang Bo's ideas at all. I will most probably be wrong, which is why I made this thread. Please do criticise and correct, I love to learn about Zen Masters.

Here goes:

All the Buddhas and all sentient beings are nothing but the One Mind, beside which nothing exists.

Right, okay. I don't have the exact quote but didn't a ZM say Buddha-nature is ordinary mind is emptiness? Also, what about non-sentient things? Don't they all expound the Dharma?

This Mind, which is without beginning, is unborn and indestructible.

Is our subjective, aware mind different from the One Mind? If not, this is conjecture. I don't remember being aware when I was still a sperm and an egg in two separate places.

If it is different and has no relation to this conscious experience, it seems utterly empty and meaningless.

It is not green nor yellow, and has neither form nor appearance.

Right, emptiness is like that.

It does not belong to the categories of things which exist or do not exist, nor can it be thought of in terms of new or old.

I mean, you can't say that emptiness exists, since it is a lack of an existing thing. You also can't say it doesn't exist because it exists at least as an idea we can understand and discuss, like the finger pointing to the moon if you will. So I guess I would agree here as well.

It is neither long nor short, big nor small, for it transcends all limits, measures, names, traces and comparisons.

Um, yes.

It is that which you see before you—begin to reason about it and you at once fall into error.

Curious. What you see before you is ordinary experience. Cutting off conceptual thinking is a fun activity and a good way to get into the "flow" of things but in the end, you are just giving yourself a mental lobotomy. It is one way to live emptiness and ordinary mind is the Zen way to enlightenment I'm aware, but I always struggled with the idea that this could produce understanding, since it is the very understanding of things you cut off. Comments and suggestions on this are very welcome.

One mind alone is the Buddha, and there is no distinction between the Buddha and sentient things, but that sentient beings are attached to forms and so seek externally for Buddhahood. By their very seeking they lose it, for that is using the Buddha to seek for the Buddha and using mind to grasp Mind.

Don't have anything to add, can be understood with my interpretation as well.

Even though they do their utmost for a full aeon, they will not be able to attain to it.

Assuming. I think we all plunge into emptiness when we die.

They do not know that, if they put a stop to conceptual thought and forget their anxiety, the Buddha will appear before them, for this Mind is the Buddha and the Buddha is all living beings.

Happens when I listen to the Heart Sutra with understanding. https://youtu.be/gm4hTcRhoqI

It is not the less for being manifested in ordinary beings, nor is it greater for being manifested in the Buddhas.

Yes.

Please tell me where I'm wrong and let's hold a nice discussion, my bikkhus. I love you.

Submitted August 18, 2020 at 01:30AM by SpringRainPeace https://ift.tt/3h4Vj4t