2bitmoments 8 koans from Dongshen: Koan 26B

-26-

When the Master was in Leh-t'an, he met Head Monk Ch'u, ⁵⁹ who said, "How amazing, how amazing, the realm of the Buddha and the realm of the Path! ⁶⁰ How unimaginable!"

Accordingly, the Master said, "I don't inquire about the realm of the Buddha or the realm of the Path; rather, what kind of person is he who talks thus about the realm of the Buddha and the realm of the Path?"

When, after a long time, Ch'u had not responded, the Master said, "Why don't you answer more quickly?"

Ch'u said, "Such aggressiveness will not do."

"You haven't even answered what you were asked, so how can you say that such aggressiveness will not do?" said the Master.

Ch'u did not respond. The Master said, "The Buddha and the Path are both nothing more than names. Why don't you quote some teaching?"

"What would a teaching say?" asked Ch'u.

"When you've gotten the meaning, forget the words," 61 said the Master.

"By still depending on teachings, you sicken your mind," said Ch'u.

"But how great is the sickness of the one who talks about the realm of the Buddha and the realm of the Path?" said the Master.

Again Ch'u did not reply. The next day he suddenly passed away. At that time the Master came to be known as "one who questions head monks to death."

Commentaries/notes

^60. "Path" here is the Chinese Tao, which can be understood in one of two ways. It can be read as the pre-Buddhist notion of the Way, e.g., the source of everything (as it sometimes appears in the Tao Te Ching) or the way of something such as Heaven, Nature, or man (as it occurs in both the Tao Te Ching and the Analects of Confucius). Or it can be read as a translation of the technical term for the Buddhist Path (Skt., marga). Given the latter reading, one can understand this passage as praising the path and its fruit, Buddhahood, or simply as variations on a single theme, Buddhism.

^61. "When you've gotten the meaning, forget the words" is a quotation from the "External Things" (Wai wu) chapter of the Chuang-tzu (Watson, p. 302).

The context of the quote from Chuang-tzu, the second most important Taoist thinker:

"The fish trap exists because of the fish; once you've gotten the fish, you can forget the trap. The rabbit snare exists because of the rabbit; once you've gotten the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words exist because of meaning; once you've gotten the meaning, you can forget the words. Where can I find a man who has forgotten words so I can have a word with him?"

Comments:

1. Here we have perhaps a strong and clear dispute between a “Buddhist” and a “Zen Master”, but this buddhist recognized the truth in the zen masters words, his rebuke, to the point that he suffered and died. “what kind of person is he who talks thus about the realm of the Buddha and the realm of the Path?" I take to mean, “Either defend that you are a Buddha and/or enlightened and show it or declare that you have been disrespectful of the very things you claim to follow!”
2. "Such aggressiveness will not do." How aggressive was this Zen Master? Is aggressiveness by itself enlightened? Or is only the aggressiveness of Zen Masters enlightened? Would such aggressiveness work with someone who wasn’t a sincere believer of Buddhist ideas?
3. "You haven't even answered what you were asked” Following correct order is important to this Zen Master. Decorum of some kind, a rule of being straightforward, of responding questions put to you. Not running away from tests or dharma battles.
4. "When you've gotten the meaning, forget the words," Is a taoist phrase, not a buddhist phrase, does this matter? Is r/Zen Taoism-friendly or should it be? Why should we be remembering old texts? And specifically why Zen Master texts and not Taoist or Buddhist texts?
5. "By still depending on teachings, you sicken your mind," This is a phrase that seems to agree with the Taoist phrase, but the “Buddhist” comes off as as a hypocrite in this exchange, for he still quotes the Buddha. Is quoting Taoism sufficiently forgetful of Buddha? It is still quoting, so nobody forgot nothing, right?

Submitted May 09, 2020 at 06:41AM by 2bitmoment https://ift.tt/2WgmqkX